This Hurts Our Country More Than Bill Ayers Ever Did

Crossposted at the Motley Moose

"Pallin' around with terrorists."

I just cannot fathom the level of desperation it takes to say such a thing.  I just cannot comprehend the lack of decency it takes to say such a thing.  I just cannot believe that an honorable public servant could say such a thing.

Mercifully, I don't consider Governor Palin an honorable anything.  More troubling, perhaps, is the fact that someone I did consider to be an honorable public servant sending her out there and allowing her (or perhaps asking her) to say such a thing.

This hurts our country more than Bill Ayers ever did.

So it's come to this, has it?  An honorable American, Barack Obama, had a slight relationship with William Ayers.  Was this a mistake?  Maybe so.  Does it speak poorly of Barack's judgment?  Maybe, but if it does, it only speaks poorly of a much younger Barack's judgment.  And even then, I find that tenuous as all hell.

Look, I've had acquaintances and yes, even friends, who did things I would never do, thing I never supported.  I've known people who did hard drugs.  I've known people who sold them.  I've had strippers for friends.  I've had hardcore anarchists for friends.  I've had friends who believe, in their heart of hearts, that I'm going to hell for being pro-choice.

What's my point?  I'm tolerant.  I don't consider most people to be so tainted that having a cup of coffee with them means that I approve of everything they have ever done or will ever do.  It just doesn't.  And I think this speaks to a fundamental difference between hardcore Democrats and hardcore Republicans.

Most of the Democrats I know see morality as somewhat subjective.  Most Republicans I know see morality as almost entirely objective.  This is a crucial difference in how we see the world.  I don't write a person off because they've done something bad if I think that, on balance, that person is still worthwhile, or if they've worked like hell to move past it.

And sometimes I just don't care.  Seriously, sometimes I just do not care.  I knew (slightly) a guy who was called "Communist Fred" who listened to Fidel Castro's radio addresses as often as he could.  Does that make me a communist?  Hell no.  I WASN'T THE ONE LISTENING TO HIS RADIO ADDRESSES FOR THE HECK OF IT.

Barack Obama didn't participate in perhaps the most inept, effete, jackassed rich white people "terror group" in American history.  Bill Ayers did.  And Bill Ayers is a jackass.  He's not only a jackass - his people were just incredibly terrible at terror.  He should be a laughingstock, but that's HIS cross to bear.  Hell, the Weathermen killed as many of their own members as anyone else.  I don't drop the "ivory tower elitist" card often, but people like Bill Ayers earn it.

No, let's bring this all home.  Look, when a presidential ticket spends time implying that their opponent is "pro-terror" they are hurting this country in a way that is fundamentally worse than anything George W. Bush did in 2000, and it amazes me that I'm able to type that out with a straight face.  Implying that John McCain had bastard black children was probably the low point for quite awhile, yet John McCain himself has managed to pass that limbo stick with ease.

What is worse than what Sarah Palin just did?  I just do not see it.  Barack Obama, mild-mannered junior Senator from Illinois, HE'S buddy-buddy with Americans who seek to kill Americans?  No, he just doesn't run away when he sees someone with whom he disagrees or considers evil.

This cuts to the core of it all.  Barack Obama will talk with our enemies because ignoring them improves nothing.  When our presidents held summits with the Soviets, did they leave the room in a moral huff because of what those men had done?  No, they talked.  The hashed shit out.  They knew the measure of the other men, and they did their jobs.

John McCain's the kind of guy who won't talk with the leadership in Iran for the same reason he thinks Barack Obama shouldn't have given Bill Ayers the time of day - good people and bad people don't mix, apparently.

I don't want to live in John McCain's America.  I don't want my patriotism or "American-ness" to be questionable because of the people I've known.  I don't want to hold our leaders to such a standard that their opponents will imply they support whatever their ACQUAINTANCES have done.

Who here hasn't known someone who did something foolish, wrong, or evil?  Of course, most of us here are liberals, so by definition we must know such people.  :)

I thought that John McCain had a sense of honor and dignity.  I still think he had one, at some point.  It's academic, really, because it's certainly gone now.  Who knows when or where it went.  He's gone and done the most despicable thing I've ever seen a candidate do.

This hurts America more than anything Bill Ayers ever did.  The Weathermen didn't fundamentally change the character of America.  John McCain's probably going to pull that off.  After this election there will probably be zero doubt about it.  The two parties will not only hate one another, but they will fundamentally believe that the other side is evil and unAmerican.  Yeah, the Republicans started it (obviously), but the crap they're doing to us will logically lead us to see them in much the same way.

I see the Republican Party at present as trying to corrupt American values.  It's shown no reluctance in getting Americans killed.  It's been only too happy to leave 45+ million Americans without health care (I'm currently one of them).  It's been only too happy to try to bankrupt the joint so they can starve the beast.  

It's taken every bit of decency I've got to NOT hate Republicans.  I'm losing that battle now.  I don't want to become a blind and bitter partisan, clinging to my side.  I am an American!  I want to cherish my countrymen, regardless of party.  

These people are making it too easy to hate.  They're unleashing it.  They're fundamentally damaging our body politic, just to go from what, a ten percent chance at a win to maybe 20 or 25 percent?

Fuck that.  At this point, I'd rather have a beer with Bill Ayers than John McCain, and I never thought I'd say something like that.



Display:


Tip Jar (2.00 / 9)

Cuz I'm sick of watching these people poison the well.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 01:36:23 PM EST

Damn (2.00 / 3)

Your best diary ever, IMO. I'd rec it twice if I could.

If any terrorist wanted to damage America, he could aspire to no greater damage than to set it's people at each others throats. 9/11 pales next to an America divided by hatred.

And in this:

I don't want to live in John McCain's America.  I don't want my patriotism or "American-ness" to be questionable because of the people I've known.  I don't want to hold our leaders to such a standard that their opponents will imply they support whatever their ACQUAINTANCES have done.

In this, you speak for me completely.


by Neef on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 02:40:33 PM EST

Re: This Hurts Our Country More Than Bill Ayers Ev (2.00 / 2)

You don't need to write statements such as " An honorable American, Barack Obama, had a slight relationship with William Ayers.  Was this a mistake?  Maybe so.  Does it speak poorly of Barack's judgment?  Maybe..."  There's no maybe about it, the answer is a resounding NO to both question.  There is no smoke and no fire in the relationship and absolutely no reason to turn on Bill Ayers and give any credence to this smear on both Barack and Ayers.  I understand the point you end with, but in the end it is wrong to paint the Republican Party with the McCain/Palin brush that I believe many good-minded Republicans are beginning to move away from.  After all, it was a bunch of Republicans who were instrumental in bringing Obama and Ayers in contact in the first place.

From yesterday's NPR piece highlighted in a DKos Diary by JustForTheRecord:


The Obama campaign says he first met Ayers in 1995, when Obama became chair of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a $50 million fund that awarded grants to groups trying to implement new programs to improve inner city education in Chicago.

Walter Annenberg, a lifelong Republican and former ambassador who was appointed by Presidents Nixon and Reagan, funded an ambitious program to reform urban education in many cities in the mid 1990s. Ayers was an important member of the group that developed and wrote the grant proposal to the Annenberg Foundation.

...no one on the board or on the Annenberg Challenge staff remembers Obama being any closer to Ayers than to any other member of the board. The Annenberg board also included several civic, business and education leaders, many of them Republicans...

"I don't remember ever hearing anyone raise concerns or questions or concerns about [Ayers'] background," says Anne Hallett, who has worked closely with Ayers on the Annenberg Challenge grant and with Obama on education and other community and legislative matters. "And that included everybody I was engaged with," including prominent Republicans, and corporate and civic leaders in Chicago, Hallett adds...

Hallett calls this attack on Obama's association with Ayers and the Annenberg Challenge by further association, "a smear campaign. It's a political diatribe that has no basis in fact. The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was an extremely positive initiative. It was well-vetted, thorough, and the fact that it is now is being used for political purposes is, in my opinion, outrageous."

"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."


by Piuma on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 02:48:34 PM EST

Oh for God's sake! (2.00 / 3)

It wasn't a mistake to sit on a board with Bill Ayers.  The whole thing is ridiculous.  Bill Ayers is a professor who has made a lot of positive contributions on educational policy.  Yes, the Weather Underground stuff was wrong, criminal, etc.  
But the entire Vietnam War was an inexcusable act of aggression against a nation that had done NOTHING against the U.S.  

If a candidate can confer with Henry Kissinger, a war criminal, one can certainly sit on a board with Ayers.


by Thaddeus on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 03:05:38 PM EST

Did you bother to read (2.00 / 1)

the rest of the fucking diary?  I was making a weak concession at the start to make a fucking POINT.  Perspective is lacking.

Seriously, way to harp on one bit of a fairly lengthy diary.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 03:07:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did you bother to read (2.00 / 2)

I get you, but it's still a concession that didn't need to be made. It's like someone who is completely innocent pleading guilty on a lessor charge in order to "make a fucking POINT." If there's a point being made it's a rather pointless point. Obama didn't show any lack of judgment ("maybe" or otherwise). Ayers is a Professor at U of Ill. and lives in Obama's neighborhood... was he supposed to turn around and run the other way if he saw Ayers walking up the street?


by Mystylplx on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 03:36:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you might want to work on accepting criticism (2.00 / 2)

Yes, I did read the diary and no, you really don't know enough about Bill Ayres.  You made much more than a weak concession--you said "Bill Ayers is a jackass."  Present tense.  No need for it.  You also condemned him and his comrades as ivory tower elitists.  That doesn't fit either.  And you seem to imply that they were murderers without offering any proof.

I don't approve of the "revolutionary violence" embraced by the Weather Underground.  But I do support the hard work done by Bill Ayres, Bernadine Dohrn and a lot of other former Weatherpeople who have done a lot more to benefit this country in the past thirty years than most of the people who condemn them.

 


by Thaddeus on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well... (2.00 / 1)

who ever said she was an honorable public servant?


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 03:07:43 PM EST

Really??? (2.00 / 1)

This hurts our country more than Bill Ayers ever did.

I would think that the family of the police officer who died due to Ayers/Weathermen would differ with your opinion.


by soyousay on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 03:50:28 PM EST

I expect they would (none / 0)

And I would respectfully disagree.  The loss of one person, however tragic, does not trump the further erosion of civil society.  The loss of the one, or the few, is not more important than yet another few steps towards breaking our system of government.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 04:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course they would differ (none / 0)

They would be wrong. Understandably so, but wrong.

One man is not a nation. People are gunned down every day and it impacts you not one iota.

By the way, if you know Ayers killed someone, shouldn't he be in jail? Or do you just have proof the justice system didn't?


by Neef on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 05:24:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What police officer is that? (2.00 / 1)

Are you talking about Brian McDonnell?  No charges were ever brought in that case, and the Weathermen weren't the only group suspected?

Or are you talking about the Brinks robbery that occurred after Ayers and Dohrn had turned themselves in and the Weather Underground had dissolved?


by sneakers563 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 05:52:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great diary! (none / 0)

Recommended, with enthusiasm!

I heartily concur with your comments about talking to the other side.  If we don't, then we show total disrespect for the other side (North Korea, Iran, etc.), which is not a useful starting point for getting what we want from them.  We can talk with them - and, if things do not work out, having talked does not take away any of the other options available to us.  

We have really good evidence on how the "no talking" strategy does not work.  We've not talked with Cuba in decades.  After 40-plus years, no progress.  Even worse, our attitude has made Castro a hero in the eyes of his people.  

Wasn't it Einstein who said something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, as a good working definition of insanity?


by BillCat on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 04:36:25 PM EST

There is a party in Alaska (2.00 / 3)

known as the Alaskan Independence Party.  A part of it platform is secession from our great national Union and the establishment of Alaska as an independent state.  

Sarah Palin accuses Barack Obama, for his harmless and casual association with William Ayers of palling around with terrorists.  But her association with the Alaskan Independence Party is in now way casual:


That's it, baby; let's go win this election!
by Beltway Dem on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 05:26:22 PM EST

Re: This Hurts Our (2.00 / 1)

for google's 10th anniversary you can search google circa 2001, here's "william ayers"

http://www.google.com/search2001/search? hl=en&q=william+ayers&btnG=Googl e+Search

honestly, it's not the guy's defining trait


by brezinst on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 05:50:43 PM EST

Re: This Hurts Our Country More Than Bill (none / 0)

I don't see how someone can be faulted for sitting on a board of a public interest group with someone who, when he was young, committed crimes.  In his long political career, has McCain never sat down with some foreign official accused of far worse to conduct negotiations or to hammer out a mutually beneficial agreement?   Would McCain refuse to do so if he were to become President?  This is such an exercise in stupidity.


by rfahey22 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 08:38:00 PM EST

Great Diary...Thanks! (none / 0)

I really appreciate your diary.  It was well written and also from the heart.


by Jenai on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:23:14 AM EST


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